Comments for From Windows to Linux - and back again at http://www.itwire.com , comment 1 to 44 out of 20 comments http://www.itwire.com Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:14:13 -0600 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6798 I'm writing a recommendation paper for Boston Public schools about implementing linux systems as part of their computer education. I'm only writing this paper as part of a class I'm taking (not for real), but I was never able to find "negative stories" about linux, 'til now. so thanks! - Merav Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:18:57 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6419 All you Windoze fanboys whining about how nothing works properly on Linux are so brainwashed you don't even realise it. You have been assimilated by the MS Borg and are all collectively inept. ID 10 T errors, please reboot. Linux is Open Source, and for the most part only contains software that fall under the Open Source classification after you have installed a particular flavour on your pc. But unlike Windows, you are free to install anything and everything else you want. Sometimes this means educating yourself just a little bit by doing a little googling to find out how to get hardware that is not directly supported on linux by the manufacturer of the product to work. You wouldn't have this issue if the Mfg's would just make a Linux driver, just like they make a Windows driver. Until then, the Linux users must rely on very smart, intelligent, and unselfish developers that write drivers for unsupported devices and release them free of charge to the Linux community. Try finding that kind of online community support in the Windows world, where you are required to dish out money left right and center for half-@ssed, poorly written, bloatware that requires 3 times the resources than a linux equivalent. - frank123 Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:17:06 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6298 To be honest Windows is probably for those who cares about 1)easier Networking 2)Playing games and entertainment.and who doest care about money. So,if u can take little effort then linux is your's without restriction. I like to say there are three to five choices.First ubuntu,Fedora,Mepis(cost $0).order cds from shipit.ubuntu.com,Mepis can do all multimedia stuff without any drivers issues,then there are others like SUSE and Xandros,Linspire(costly not truly open source). - ajmal Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:20:44 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6185 At least have a dual boot Windows XP computer with Ubuntu or Fedora, DO NOT use Vista, wait for Windows 7 and dual boot between that and some form of very stable linux OS. We can't completely abandon linux just because some IT guy was able to bring back XP. I like XP for media and games but linux is perfect for everything else. If you have to use XP, get PRO, and make sure you continue to use open source software on it, be it OpenOffice, GIMP, Audacity, Inkscape, Scribus, Firefox, Thunderbird, etc., open source WILL save you money in the long term. Stop wasting more money on MS Office despite any deals offered. Just a good suggestion from a former Windows User... BTW, I will be using Fedora 9 on a virtual machine as soon as I get my iMac, I think virtual machines are better than dual booting, IMHO! - Markus McLaughlin Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:03:21 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6121 Ngoato Sekwati, I certainly don't intend to dismiss your own experiences, but XP didn't come with DVD drivers last I checked (which wasn't recently; the newest reference I could find on Microsoft's site was http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/setup/expert/bridgman02april15.mspx). I suspect your positive DVD experience may have come from having XP *pre-installed*, and thus having the hardware vendor also pre-install your DVD player for you. That's indeed the easiest way to get DVD players on a computer. Happily, if you purchase Ubuntu pre-installed, you'll have exactly the same experience (http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/133). :-) In any event, best wishes with your OS of choice. - ricegf Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:10:18 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6120 As a high school computer teacher, I can confirm that computer-illiterate teachers, as well as corrupt school administrators, corrupt education ministry bureaucrats (bribed by M$), are indeed the problem. Having run a linux lab for years, while windoze labs had constant problems, I can tell you that windoze labs are a tremendous waste of money. Want to see a school district (yes, an ENTIRE school district, not just one school) that is competent and knows what it is doing? Check out school district 73 in British Columbia, Canada, using linux for years in ALL of its elementary schools, etc. Demonstrates the difference between competence and corrupt, illiterate, bumbling schools and officials. Check it out here: http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/ - Edm Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:15:03 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6114 @Outta here Are you administering your Linux box like you administer your Microsoft Windows box? Are you installing drivers and other software from hither and yon or are you installing the software that comes with your distro? Are you doing your own system integration, ensuring that there's no version or library incompatibilities, or are you letting your distro do the work for you? Are you installing closed-source binary-only drivers supplied by manufacturers that may or may not continue to be supported over time or are you using the software your distro supplies and supports? Administer Linux the hodge-podge Microsoft Windows way and you'll get the same results, a fragile and unstable system that's difficult to secure, breaks when upgraded, requires time and effort to maintain, and eventually turns to muck and must be wiped and reinstalled. Choose a good distro and stay within the bounds it sets. That's the secret to a secure, stable, maintenance free, and easily upgraded Linux experience. Yes, this means there may be limitations. I want a pony too. Of course, you could become an expert and make your own rules but that's not for everyone. The effortless choice is to be patient. You'd be surprised at what, and how quickly, the Open Source Fairy will deliver new software to the Internet near you. - Karl O. Pinc Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:18:34 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6109 I put in a kids DVD into my XP machine and it works straight away without any fiddling. On my newly installed Ubuntu Gusty system I install all the restricted drivers that I am told to install to enable DVD's to be read, but still Totem refuses. Colleagues acces an HP laserjet 2300 printer which is connected to the XP. I would now have to alter all their setups should I connect it to my Gusty box. It is easier for me to run Thunderbird, Open Office and Opera on Windows rather than going and trying to sort out all the free vs restricted issues that make Linux so difficult to use. In an ideal world, there is no doubt that free software should be better. Unfortunately our world is not ideal. - Ngoato Sekwati Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:03:03 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6106 @camerageek: 'I'll believe that Linux is "ready for the desktop" when I can walk into the local store and get to choose between boxes of popular software titles that differ only by whether the label reads "For Windows" or "For Linux".' So, you'll believe that a *free* operating system with tens of thousands of *free* applications that can be installed at the click of a mouse is "ready" when you're forced to go into a local store, choose from a hundred or so applications, pay big bucks, take a *box* home, and shove a CD into your computer - just like your dad did in the 1990's? May I recommend http://www.ubuntu.com, and welcome to the 21st century, my friend. - ricegf Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:45:08 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6104 Hey, Mr 'The Truth' How about YOU read before you post? I was referring to the comment above mine. I guess I should have been more specific, but it's a pity you were so QUICK to judge before responding to my comment, eh? Here's the quote I was responding to, it's directly above mine. Why not Linux in schools written by another IT school manager, February 21, 2008 It's really because many teachers have shaky IT skills, and tend to be a conservative group. They haven't heard the Open Source message. There is huge interest amongst many of my more enlightened students many of whom boot into Ubuntu CDs at every opportunity. - Alex Zaharov- Reutt Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:15:29 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6103 Hmm as you can see the telling point is the IT budget was increased four fold and I wonder how much more hidden costs there are. It's a shame that precious resource money is allowed to line the pockets of a convicted monopolist. And yes there is a learning curve with Linux but if your IT manager cannot handle a current Linux network then they really should be selling flowers as they have a very poor and limited skill base. - A N other Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:04:13 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6102 It just struck me that, if students are booting into Ubuntu instead of what's already there, it might not always be for the lily-white pure reason of preferring the Ubuntu Linux environment over Windows. Ummmmm, the article quite plainly stated that those machines had both Linux and XP installed. The kids obviously preferred using the Linux 'installs' over XP. In the future please read before you troll. - The Truth Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:03:39 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6101 Hmmm, Baptist Grammar School; is it a private school?? What has changed over the years besides the new found wealth?? Has there been a gradual turnover of staff, and in which direction has the average teacher age gone?? Perhaps you can also enlighten us as to the application and learning advantages the students will have with the new arrangement when compared with the previous one? As teachers have become more technology-conversant and technology-friendly over the years, have they become more daring about putting their opinions forward, not realising that technology has not stood still in the interim? In my mind, they remain technologically staid and naive and have simply become the new pawns- a flock of sheep in a field of corporate marketing-hype and BS. It stupefies me as to how blind and irresponsible they appear to be to the children they teach; what after all, is their vocational incentive to becoming teachers... a desire to help a child become a better person? Tutoring is surely a matter of opening their minds (and their curiosity), not about opening their books and learning to recite. I perceive a new technology prosperity arising from those countries currently adopting OLPC's X0; not a moment too soon I'm thinking, and educational sectors of developed countries should watch with interest. - xutre Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:03:28 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6100 I'm all for Linux being a viable alternative to Windows and Mac, but if a school is set up with Windows or Mac PCs, and students are bringing in Ubuntu CD's to launch from, could they be bypassing any content or other restrictions in place on the existing machines for whatever reason? Usually school or business computers have some kind of restrictions placed on them to stop students from visiting specific sites or running certain types of software. It just struck me that, if students are booting into Ubuntu instead of what's already there, it might not always be for the lily-white pure reason of preferring the Ubuntu Linux environment over Windows. These are students we are talking about here. I'm sure some are using it in preference, but I can't believe that all are, especially the 'enlightened' ones that really know what they are doing with their technology. It might pay to investigate what the students are doing! Once again, the students could be using Ubuntu boot CDs for the purest of reasons, but it still makes me wonder... Cheers Alex. - Alex Zaharov- Reutt Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:39:39 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6098 It's really because many teachers have shaky IT skills, and tend to be a conservative group. They haven't heard the Open Source message. There is huge interest amongst many of my more enlightened students many of whom boot into Ubuntu CDs at every opportunity. - another IT school manager Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:16:41 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6096 CameraGeek has a point. I'd like to start a business packaging open source software and selling it in retail chains for $9.95 to $29.95, with an included booklet on installation and operation. The booklet can even explain where to download the latest version or install it from package managers in popular linux distributions, in case the included CD is not up to date. The fact is, Windows has the mindshare in large part because when you go to the store, you see rows of shelves filled with software that says "Works with Windows" on the box. If half those shelves were filled with software that said "Works with Linux", people would begin to see they have a choice, especially if accompanied with a few models of PCs with Linux factory installed sitting on the shelves, as is beginning to happen with Walmart, Dell, and Sears. It doesn't matter that people can download the software for free if they don't know it exists in the first place. Also, people don't mind paying for the box, CD and booklet. If they did, then downloadable freeware for Windows would enjoy a greater percentage of the market than commercial packaged sofware. Also, I wonder where that fourfold increase in IT budget came from. Could it be that the it budget increase came from an infusion of cash from Microsoft, or the Bill and Gloria Gates foundation? Perhaps contingent on it's being spent on computers with Windows and Office installed? I doubt the savings and efficiencies from using Linux for those years was actually something the IT department wanted to lose. And based on the article, the source of the increased budget is a mystery. Lastly, I wish iTWire would stop updating my browser screen and wiping out my comment before I get a chance to post it. As a workaround, I had to write this in notepad and paste it. - Paul_B Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:36:53 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6092 Apparently email addresses such as user@school.k12.state.us are not valid email addresses. At least that's what the itwire.com comments system tells me. - K12Linux Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:55:26 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6081 In order to be wifi compatible use SimplyMepis. Almost all wifi cards work at the first intent with this Debian/Kubuntu descendant, linux distribution. - Oscar Random Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:07:40 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6080 I wonder if they actually considered the kids in the equation? ("Think of the children!!!"), or was it driven completely by the teachers lack of ability? If the kids were happy to use the linux based machines, were they actually consulted about the decision to replace them with non-linux machines? Hamish - Hamish Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:39:06 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16721/1090/#comment-6079 @Joe Ch: Your comment on Adobe's support of Flash on Linux is blatantly false. A quick check on Adobe's website shows that both Linux and Windows versions of Flash are numbered 9.0.115, with 64bit systems lacking support in both platforms. Borrowing a line from yourself, "Adobe probably releases new versions sooner than your distro updates." - JP Wed, 20 Feb 2008 11:31:21 -0600