Comments for GNOME: the cowboy project at http://www.itwire.com , comment 1 to 16 out of 16 comments http://www.itwire.com Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:55:56 -0600 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5112 Looks like those wearing BIASED glasses needs to either: 1. Update their version of both Apps to something recent. 2. Actually try using the applications in question. Both _do_ support ODF. Whilst not every feature of the ODF sepcs are in place, the 'core' is there. Arguments about Gnome Vs KDE is like trying to argue which colour is better.. Blue or Red. Use what you feel most comfortable with. Myself... I use both.. and have both libraries installed.. and use apps from both. It's the best of both worlds. :) - mb Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:37:40 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5092 ...and apparently himself as well. You cannot properly (read: able to open any other OOXML document) implement Microsoft's OOXML without violating some Microsoft patents. On the other hand, you *can* do so between ODF implementations without patent concerns. Not saying it's been done perfectly yet with all ODF-speaking apps; rather, I'm saying that you *can* do it. Not so with OOXML. If you really do care about migrating people over to FLOSS, then please stop putting them at this legal risk. Stick with truly unencumbered ODF. - Sum Yung Gai Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:25:41 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5091 With Koffice my default choice to save is .odt. I use a distribution called Debian GNU/Linux - I presume you have heard of it. Possibly, it may not be as well known or popular as this buntu thing to which one of you gentlemen refer. We are talking about defaults here - not functionality provided by this or that plugin. And we seem to have conveniently forgotten about Gnumeric. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Murray Cumming is onto something. - samv Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:05:21 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5090 Sridhar is right Sam. Install the abiword-plugins-impexp (or whatever it is called in your specific distro) and it will handle any .odt file. I use it on a daily basis and it works fine. It's not Abiword's devs fault that certain distros forget to integrate plenty of usefull plugins. - don_crissti Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:15:31 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5089 Sam, Please investigate things properly before you accuse. I've got Abiword installed here on Ubuntu 7.10, and I have the choice to open and save ODT files. A lot of Abiword's functionality are via extensions (much like Firefox). If you're using Ubuntu, install the abiword-plugins package and enable the plug-in via the Tools -> Plug-ins menu. Hopefully they'll couple the ODT functionality more closely when they are more confident in its capabilities. ODF isn't a easy standard to implement, and in fact when you include all the other standards it relies upon, its length rivals that of OOXML. - Sridhar Dhanapalan Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:02:45 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5086 By that argument, Sam, you have to say that KOffice doesn't support ODF either. Maybe you should eat your own advice and stop your own spinning, you've obviously gotten dizzy already. - Joe Black Sat, 22 Dec 2007 10:15:59 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5084 I am using version 2.4.6 of Abiword and I cannot see any way to create a document in .odt format. I am using version 1.6.3 of Gnumeric and when I save a document all I can see with regard to .odt is Open Office OASIS_UNFINISHED_ You can't be half-pregnant - you either have support for .odt or not. Please stop spinning and speak the truth for once. - samv Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:34:55 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5051 Not researching ODF support in Abiword and Gnumeric isn't really misinformation. It's more like poor or slanted journalism, but it isn't central to the article. Sam did the classic move when writing about Free Software: Talk to Richard. He always answers simply and directly, and only accounts for what he knows. Sure, you can find the email addresses for every Gnumeric contributor in the "About" dialog, but Richard has probably never used Gnumeric so he genuinely doesn't know how to contact them! Whenever a journalist goes to Richard (and that includes Dan Lyons) they get to play the lawyer who always knows the answers a witness will give to his questions. And in this case, Richard's observations are fair: GNOME isn't particularly attached to GNU or the FSF, and Miguel is still influential and involved. And Miguel is not inclined to the values of Free Software these days, so make of it what you will! - J. Dave Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:50:49 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5050 Lets just all hope it gets voted down next year and be grateful for small mercies, it won't stop it spreading but might help slow it down where it matter's. As to the whole Gnome/KDE debate, I'm long over that one and use both on a daily basis, i've never understood why people feel a need to take sides, use whatever you like, thats what it's all about. I read most of Sam's article's, he always jumps at any chance to attack Gnome, why I don't know, if he chooses to waste his time on such nonsense that's fine but i have better things to do. - Mark Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:55:49 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5049 Well, if you're talking about Mono, it's not like the GNOME community has been particularly warm to it. If you're talking about OOXML, then you need to look at the OSP, remember that we're doing the ECMA stuff to get as much documentation as possible, and consider what would happen if no one in the FLOSS community implemented it, giving Microsoft an advantage in an already monopolised market. Of course, everyone who cares about getting users to migrate to FLOSS is working on it, because it's the right thing to do. :-) - Jeff Waugh Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:45:45 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5046 Lost most of the FLOSS communities respect some time ago in case you are not aware Jeff. He's at best misguided or just plain delusional, I for one wish he would just go away and take his horrible tainted code with him. - Mark Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:52:41 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5045 Jeff, Thank you for your comments and clarifications regarding OOXML and Miguel's involvement. I used to praise his name to high Heaven during the legal problems with Qt. I used GNOME both on principle and because it was good. However, in light of his apparent love-affair these days with Microsoft patented technologies (e. g. .NET, Silverlight, and OOXML), and his deep involvement with GNOME (the founder, as you point out), I am concerned. I'm not a developer. I'm one of the many evangelists out here trying to get people to actually convert to Free Software, and I'm having some modest success. However, I don't see how putting them on technologies that we know that Microsoft claims patents on is helpful, unless you're actively trying to get yourself sued by Microsoft. It seems to me like GNOME is sliding that way. In light of Miguel's prominence (and he *is* prominent, no question), should not the GNOME Project take an equally principled stance against including known MS-patented technology as the KDE Project has done? --SYG - Sum Yung Gai Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:48:49 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5023 Additionally, Planet GNOME (as anyone paying attention to blogging in the FLOSS community should know) is a blog aggregator. There are no "accounts on Planet GNOME", just aggregated personal blog entries. - Jeff Waugh Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:13:25 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5022 Miguel is still a GNOME Foundation member and included on Planet GNOME because we actually show respect for our past contributors, even if they are not *directly* active in the GNOME project itself anymore. These facts do not demonstrate any influence over the GNOME Foundation or GNOME development whatsoever. Miguel founded the project -- of course we're not going to "kick him out" of our community. We are not nasty and irrational. - Jeff Waugh Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:12:20 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5021 To correct some misinformation in this article: While Gnumeric has only the beginnings of OOXML / Office 2007 support, it also includes partial support for ODF (which is improving, but needs help). Abiword includes support for ODF and uses it by default on, for instance, the version of Abiword (called 'Write') on the OLPC. It is extremely disingenuous to suggest that GNOME is a "champion of OOXML" just because we're starting to implement it so our users can choose Free Software instead of proprietary Microsoft products. - Jeff Waugh Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:09:38 -0600 http://www.itwire.com/content/view/15864/1090/#comment-5018 Yeah, yeah we get it: you hate GNOME and love KDE. Sam, you've been beating this old worn-out drum for years (even at Fairfax). Here's a hint it's almost 2008 and nobody cares for pointless desktop environment wars anymore. Expect a zillion "I *heart* KDE" articles from Sam as KDE4 approaches. Open critique is great - in fact it's the essence of free and open source software. But critique != hatred. It's a real shame, because Sam can write really good articles when he's on his medication. Something about GNOME makes him stop taking the pills. - Sick and Tired Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:24:05 -0600